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	<title>Comments on: Designers that code: a response to Jared Spool</title>
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	<link>http://designinginterfaces.com/2011/06/01/designers-that-code-a-response-to-jared-spool/</link>
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		<title>By: Doug Cuffman</title>
		<link>http://designinginterfaces.com/2011/06/01/designers-that-code-a-response-to-jared-spool/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doug Cuffman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 13:51:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designinginterfaces.com/?p=392#comment-49</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great article and even better discussion.  The only thing I&#039;d like to add:

In my case, my many years work as a designer, then designer/front-end developer ended up becoming the vehicle for my current job as an UX/UI Information Architect for one of the top three eComm retailer sites on the web.  I have to say that I&#039;ve realized just how much I love my job because my past experience allows me to traverse the entire valley and climb all the mountains, all the while making solid recommendations and decisions.  And in my position, I have the unique opportunity to actually design the interface and functionality, which I pass on to creative and IS, who implement the &quot;it&quot; I created in terms of both &quot;skinning&quot; and &quot;make it go&quot;.

I can say hands down, without a doubt, the designer who can code is far, far more valuable and instrumental, and as you point out, its a careful exercise in self-branding to ensure both skills get utilized equally, or at least close.

Thanks for the great article (and your book!)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article and even better discussion.  The only thing I&#8217;d like to add:</p>
<p>In my case, my many years work as a designer, then designer/front-end developer ended up becoming the vehicle for my current job as an UX/UI Information Architect for one of the top three eComm retailer sites on the web.  I have to say that I&#8217;ve realized just how much I love my job because my past experience allows me to traverse the entire valley and climb all the mountains, all the while making solid recommendations and decisions.  And in my position, I have the unique opportunity to actually design the interface and functionality, which I pass on to creative and IS, who implement the &#8220;it&#8221; I created in terms of both &#8220;skinning&#8221; and &#8220;make it go&#8221;.</p>
<p>I can say hands down, without a doubt, the designer who can code is far, far more valuable and instrumental, and as you point out, its a careful exercise in self-branding to ensure both skills get utilized equally, or at least close.</p>
<p>Thanks for the great article (and your book!)</p>
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		<title>By: Coding and Designing &#124; is ALL CAPS</title>
		<link>http://designinginterfaces.com/2011/06/01/designers-that-code-a-response-to-jared-spool/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coding and Designing &#124; is ALL CAPS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 02:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designinginterfaces.com/?p=392#comment-41</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]  Designers that code: a response to Jared Spool [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Designers that code: a response to Jared Spool [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jeremie lederman</title>
		<link>http://designinginterfaces.com/2011/06/01/designers-that-code-a-response-to-jared-spool/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jeremie lederman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 23:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designinginterfaces.com/?p=392#comment-36</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great article. I know very few designers who code great AND have great design. I supposed &#039;great&#039; is subjective. Personally, I believe that visual communication requires a working knowledge of code and what&#039;s possible, but it&#039;s time for business to cough it up and pay for each role. I want an expensive car that&#039;s also cheap, for instance...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article. I know very few designers who code great AND have great design. I supposed &#8216;great&#8217; is subjective. Personally, I believe that visual communication requires a working knowledge of code and what&#8217;s possible, but it&#8217;s time for business to cough it up and pay for each role. I want an expensive car that&#8217;s also cheap, for instance&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: jtidwell</title>
		<link>http://designinginterfaces.com/2011/06/01/designers-that-code-a-response-to-jared-spool/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jtidwell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2011 14:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designinginterfaces.com/?p=392#comment-34</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that, as usual, we&#039;re both right. :-)

If Sturgeon&#039;s Law is true (and I have no reason to believe it isn&#039;t), then even in a culture that values design, most designer/coders will still have trouble fitting into an organization in a way that uses their talents fully and doesn&#039;t shortchange design. Most orgs are still broken in various ways, and in my experience, that brokenness often shows up when designs need to be &quot;approved&quot; and then turned into working code.

Yes, more orgs are recognizing the value of good design, and thank goodness for that! But you can&#039;t ship a Fireworks document. Nor a prototype (at least, you shouldn&#039;t, though many have tried). The people who actually build the working product will always have the most valuable skillset, when the rubber meets the road -- I don&#039;t see that changing anytime soon.

And I agree that a savvy and more experienced designer/coder will be better at picking jobs that are a good fit. :-)  It&#039;s hard to walk away from a commitment, though, ya know?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that, as usual, we&#8217;re both right. <img src="http://designinginterfaces.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" class="wp-smiley" /> </p>
<p>If Sturgeon&#8217;s Law is true (and I have no reason to believe it isn&#8217;t), then even in a culture that values design, most designer/coders will still have trouble fitting into an organization in a way that uses their talents fully and doesn&#8217;t shortchange design. Most orgs are still broken in various ways, and in my experience, that brokenness often shows up when designs need to be &#8220;approved&#8221; and then turned into working code.</p>
<p>Yes, more orgs are recognizing the value of good design, and thank goodness for that! But you can&#8217;t ship a Fireworks document. Nor a prototype (at least, you shouldn&#8217;t, though many have tried). The people who actually build the working product will always have the most valuable skillset, when the rubber meets the road &#8212; I don&#8217;t see that changing anytime soon.</p>
<p>And I agree that a savvy and more experienced designer/coder will be better at picking jobs that are a good fit. <img src="http://designinginterfaces.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" class="wp-smiley" />   It&#8217;s hard to walk away from a commitment, though, ya know?</p>
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		<title>By: anne gibson</title>
		<link>http://designinginterfaces.com/2011/06/01/designers-that-code-a-response-to-jared-spool/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anne gibson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2011 13:59:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designinginterfaces.com/?p=392#comment-32</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I started at a (very large) financial company in tech support and they paid for my master&#039;s in software engineering. But instead of heading into one of our production support shops, I gravitated to our user experience team. 

Three years there taught me I&#039;m a lousy fit for the visioning team, because I can&#039;t stop myself from designing things we can actually implement. I love detailed UI design, not visioning. 

Now I&#039;m in our user-centered design shop. (Did I mention &quot;very large&quot; company? Most places probably don&#039;t separate information architect from UI prototyper from UI developer, but we do.) Now I can play with some visioning at the beginning of a tactical project (where we don&#039;t engage the UX folks) dive into the weeds of the design during the prototyping phase, and still have intelligent development conversations about midtier, data, and performance considerations with my development peers. And I have a lot less trouble with those conversations than my UCD peers who have no true development background. 

On the other hand, while I have a measurable amount of design experience now, any hiring manager who wanted me for my software engineering degree would likely be disappointed to find out the last time I architected code was in class. I know the theory behind the patterns and what &quot;bad smelling&quot; code is, but I&#039;ve not touched C++ or Java since 2005, forget learned C# or perl or Python or Ruby or any of the languages the &quot;cool kids&quot; use. Heck, I just learned JavaScript in the last few months. 

My point: there&#039;s a spectrum between design &amp; development, and if you&#039;re tenacious and careful you can be extremely lucky like I was and find the spot you want to occupy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I started at a (very large) financial company in tech support and they paid for my master&#8217;s in software engineering. But instead of heading into one of our production support shops, I gravitated to our user experience team. </p>
<p>Three years there taught me I&#8217;m a lousy fit for the visioning team, because I can&#8217;t stop myself from designing things we can actually implement. I love detailed UI design, not visioning. </p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m in our user-centered design shop. (Did I mention &#8220;very large&#8221; company? Most places probably don&#8217;t separate information architect from UI prototyper from UI developer, but we do.) Now I can play with some visioning at the beginning of a tactical project (where we don&#8217;t engage the UX folks) dive into the weeds of the design during the prototyping phase, and still have intelligent development conversations about midtier, data, and performance considerations with my development peers. And I have a lot less trouble with those conversations than my UCD peers who have no true development background. </p>
<p>On the other hand, while I have a measurable amount of design experience now, any hiring manager who wanted me for my software engineering degree would likely be disappointed to find out the last time I architected code was in class. I know the theory behind the patterns and what &#8220;bad smelling&#8221; code is, but I&#8217;ve not touched C++ or Java since 2005, forget learned C# or perl or Python or Ruby or any of the languages the &#8220;cool kids&#8221; use. Heck, I just learned JavaScript in the last few months. </p>
<p>My point: there&#8217;s a spectrum between design &amp; development, and if you&#8217;re tenacious and careful you can be extremely lucky like I was and find the spot you want to occupy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jarmo</title>
		<link>http://designinginterfaces.com/2011/06/01/designers-that-code-a-response-to-jared-spool/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jarmo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2011 13:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designinginterfaces.com/?p=392#comment-31</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As somebody who used to be a full-time developer for some years (with UI design responsibilities) and who does only (ux) design now, I do have an opinion too that is based on my own experiences. You &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; do both but if you do, you need to accept the fact that you&#039;ll be mediocre in both (unless you&#039;re some kind of super-talented freak - I just never met one of those). The divided skillset can be well enough for startups. It can be quite enough for bigger companies as well but then we&#039;re not talking about cutting-edge. If you want to be good at client work, concentrate on one profession. I&#039;m now reading filling in the blanks, tens of more ux books - including Jennifers&#039; - are on the table waiting. My developer colleagues read about TDD, cloud hosting, advanced Javascript etc. There&#039;s only so much time to learn new things.

Facebook, Google and others like that are another story. They can ask for designer-coders since their needs are different. Design-wise they&#039;re only working on pretty straight-forward stuff. Facebook&#039;s visual design is very simple. So is Google&#039;s. They don&#039;t need that many true artists to come up with different artistic visions of Facebook. They have people doing the real designer work. The designer-coders they now want can just take the ready-made elements and use them. A good front-end developer with a UX-eye can handle that. They also have their masterminds designing and maintaining the architecture that&#039;s optimized to serve 600 million people with real-time updates. Huge amount of data. Huge scaling challenges. No worries, designer-coders won&#039;t mess it up, they just need to follow the practices that the lead architects come up with. 

With Designer-coder they mean more like &quot;We want great people to do front-end development that&#039;s great for users&quot;. They want people who understand design, UX and development. They want people who love perfection. They want people who see if something is misaligned by one pixel. They want people who care about that one pixel. 

See, no need for super-wide nor super-deep skills in the same person. It&#039;s enough if you the codebase inside out. Those who seek for designer-developers are bright enough to understand what their needs are. Why to recruit artist if they know, there&#039;s no use for guys who paint well? 

Your colleagues are just better developers or designers if they only concentrate on one of those. If not, you&#039;re not really working with that talented people. The trick to learn both is to put in the hours - years of full time work with people who are better than you. If you want to be really good in something and have deep, wide understanding about that, that&#039;s a lifetime.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As somebody who used to be a full-time developer for some years (with UI design responsibilities) and who does only (ux) design now, I do have an opinion too that is based on my own experiences. You <i>can</i> do both but if you do, you need to accept the fact that you&#8217;ll be mediocre in both (unless you&#8217;re some kind of super-talented freak &#8211; I just never met one of those). The divided skillset can be well enough for startups. It can be quite enough for bigger companies as well but then we&#8217;re not talking about cutting-edge. If you want to be good at client work, concentrate on one profession. I&#8217;m now reading filling in the blanks, tens of more ux books &#8211; including Jennifers&#8217; &#8211; are on the table waiting. My developer colleagues read about TDD, cloud hosting, advanced Javascript etc. There&#8217;s only so much time to learn new things.</p>
<p>Facebook, Google and others like that are another story. They can ask for designer-coders since their needs are different. Design-wise they&#8217;re only working on pretty straight-forward stuff. Facebook&#8217;s visual design is very simple. So is Google&#8217;s. They don&#8217;t need that many true artists to come up with different artistic visions of Facebook. They have people doing the real designer work. The designer-coders they now want can just take the ready-made elements and use them. A good front-end developer with a UX-eye can handle that. They also have their masterminds designing and maintaining the architecture that&#8217;s optimized to serve 600 million people with real-time updates. Huge amount of data. Huge scaling challenges. No worries, designer-coders won&#8217;t mess it up, they just need to follow the practices that the lead architects come up with. </p>
<p>With Designer-coder they mean more like &#8220;We want great people to do front-end development that&#8217;s great for users&#8221;. They want people who understand design, UX and development. They want people who love perfection. They want people who see if something is misaligned by one pixel. They want people who care about that one pixel. </p>
<p>See, no need for super-wide nor super-deep skills in the same person. It&#8217;s enough if you the codebase inside out. Those who seek for designer-developers are bright enough to understand what their needs are. Why to recruit artist if they know, there&#8217;s no use for guys who paint well? </p>
<p>Your colleagues are just better developers or designers if they only concentrate on one of those. If not, you&#8217;re not really working with that talented people. The trick to learn both is to put in the hours &#8211; years of full time work with people who are better than you. If you want to be really good in something and have deep, wide understanding about that, that&#8217;s a lifetime.</p>
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		<title>By: Jared M. Spool</title>
		<link>http://designinginterfaces.com/2011/06/01/designers-that-code-a-response-to-jared-spool/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jared M. Spool]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 22:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designinginterfaces.com/?p=392#comment-29</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with practically everything you&#039;ve said here. It&#039;s a nice augmentation to my original post (which, as you correctly pointed out, I kept brief).

However, I don&#039;t think your point about work gravitating from design to coding when both options are available is quite right. It sounds, from your description, that your experiences have been a combination of Sturgeon&#039;s Law and poor resource management. It may also be the case that you took on work you should&#039;ve probably said no to.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_Law&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sturgeon&#039;s Law&lt;/a&gt; says that 90% of everything is crap. Project work isn&#039;t immune to this fundamental law of production. It&#039;s hard to take a single data point as a rule, when it comes to the &quot;but in reality&quot; clause because there&#039;s a good chance you&#039;ve found something that&#039;s fallen into the 90% zone.

What you described sounded like you had a manager who didn&#039;t understand what a designer contributes to a project. I don&#039;t find this the least bit surprising, since, until recently, that would be most project managers. Design&#039;s new found importance is just that: newly found. And not everyone gets it currently.

However, the trend lines are pretty clear: more organizations see value in design, understand it&#039;s contribution, and aren&#039;t reassigning the resources to engineering, QA, or t-shirt production. As the organizations learn where to plug design in, the managers will be less likely to do what you describe. Just because something was happening in the past, doesn&#039;t mean it can&#039;t happen in the future. You&#039;re right: it&#039;s complicated in reality. However, that doesn&#039;t make it not true.

A final point: many consultants and contractors forget they can walk away from projects that aren&#039;t a good fit. I think, as the value of design increases, there will be more opportunities for designers. As opportunities increase, the better consultants, contractors, and even full-time hires, will improve their due-diligence skills and only take jobs which are an ideal fit.

Remember: Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgements. The more experiences you have in the world, the smarter you can be about your future.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with practically everything you&#8217;ve said here. It&#8217;s a nice augmentation to my original post (which, as you correctly pointed out, I kept brief).</p>
<p>However, I don&#8217;t think your point about work gravitating from design to coding when both options are available is quite right. It sounds, from your description, that your experiences have been a combination of Sturgeon&#8217;s Law and poor resource management. It may also be the case that you took on work you should&#8217;ve probably said no to.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_Law" rel="nofollow">Sturgeon&#8217;s Law</a> says that 90% of everything is crap. Project work isn&#8217;t immune to this fundamental law of production. It&#8217;s hard to take a single data point as a rule, when it comes to the &#8220;but in reality&#8221; clause because there&#8217;s a good chance you&#8217;ve found something that&#8217;s fallen into the 90% zone.</p>
<p>What you described sounded like you had a manager who didn&#8217;t understand what a designer contributes to a project. I don&#8217;t find this the least bit surprising, since, until recently, that would be most project managers. Design&#8217;s new found importance is just that: newly found. And not everyone gets it currently.</p>
<p>However, the trend lines are pretty clear: more organizations see value in design, understand it&#8217;s contribution, and aren&#8217;t reassigning the resources to engineering, QA, or t-shirt production. As the organizations learn where to plug design in, the managers will be less likely to do what you describe. Just because something was happening in the past, doesn&#8217;t mean it can&#8217;t happen in the future. You&#8217;re right: it&#8217;s complicated in reality. However, that doesn&#8217;t make it not true.</p>
<p>A final point: many consultants and contractors forget they can walk away from projects that aren&#8217;t a good fit. I think, as the value of design increases, there will be more opportunities for designers. As opportunities increase, the better consultants, contractors, and even full-time hires, will improve their due-diligence skills and only take jobs which are an ideal fit.</p>
<p>Remember: Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgements. The more experiences you have in the world, the smarter you can be about your future.</p>
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		<title>By: Iain Lowe</title>
		<link>http://designinginterfaces.com/2011/06/01/designers-that-code-a-response-to-jared-spool/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Iain Lowe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 19:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designinginterfaces.com/?p=392#comment-27</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jenifer: 
An added point to your first &quot;But&quot;...

At a Toronto IxDA event in late 2010, Jon Lax, partner at the agency Teehan &amp; Lax, pointed out during a talk that at the corporate level, and according to the Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP), code is considered an asset, while design is considered an expense. 

I think this has a lot to do with the perception that designers who code are more valuable to an organization.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jenifer:<br />
An added point to your first &#8220;But&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>At a Toronto IxDA event in late 2010, Jon Lax, partner at the agency Teehan &amp; Lax, pointed out during a talk that at the corporate level, and according to the Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP), code is considered an asset, while design is considered an expense. </p>
<p>I think this has a lot to do with the perception that designers who code are more valuable to an organization.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Sylwester</title>
		<link>http://designinginterfaces.com/2011/06/01/designers-that-code-a-response-to-jared-spool/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Sylwester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2011 17:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designinginterfaces.com/?p=392#comment-26</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is what I do when I code AND design: I code a little, then design a little, chip, chop. The processes get intermingled from the outset, and as a result I think many decisions get made much too early—for the design as well as the code. Like you say, it requires discipline to remain objective, but it can&#039;t be stressed enough how that discipline must suppress very powerful urges.  

What has caught me time and again is how the coding can &quot;paint me into a corner&quot; with a design that becomes ever more difficult to change. Even with loose couplings and mock data, the coding can begin to &quot;tie-down&quot; a design very early. Sure, alterations can still be made, but at what cost and effort? Reluctance to play with the design is inevitable and the design can suffer as a result. In certain ways, the obverse is true with the design dictating the code. 

A developer should always consider the objective of putting all the code and design into one brain. I believe the objective is rarely (if ever) to achieve the very best code for the very best design. It&#039;s almost always in favor of the fast and cheap, and at the expense of quality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what I do when I code AND design: I code a little, then design a little, chip, chop. The processes get intermingled from the outset, and as a result I think many decisions get made much too early—for the design as well as the code. Like you say, it requires discipline to remain objective, but it can&#8217;t be stressed enough how that discipline must suppress very powerful urges.  </p>
<p>What has caught me time and again is how the coding can &#8220;paint me into a corner&#8221; with a design that becomes ever more difficult to change. Even with loose couplings and mock data, the coding can begin to &#8220;tie-down&#8221; a design very early. Sure, alterations can still be made, but at what cost and effort? Reluctance to play with the design is inevitable and the design can suffer as a result. In certain ways, the obverse is true with the design dictating the code. </p>
<p>A developer should always consider the objective of putting all the code and design into one brain. I believe the objective is rarely (if ever) to achieve the very best code for the very best design. It&#8217;s almost always in favor of the fast and cheap, and at the expense of quality.</p>
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		<title>By: jtidwell</title>
		<link>http://designinginterfaces.com/2011/06/01/designers-that-code-a-response-to-jared-spool/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jtidwell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2011 04:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designinginterfaces.com/?p=392#comment-25</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s a great point. Especially if the design demands originality, it&#039;s good to unfetter one&#039;s creative thought from thinking about how it&#039;ll be implemented. It takes self-discipline to do that.  On the other hand, sometimes originality isn&#039;t as important as getting something designed, built, and out the door with minimal cost. :-) In those cases, sometimes I just work within the known bounds of the system I&#039;m given (e.g. a WordPress theme), right from the beginning of the design process.

I also agree that architecting large-scale software structures ought to be done with little regard for interface details. At that point, you may not have much of a design anyway -- and even if you do, who knows how much it&#039;ll change before it&#039;s finalized, right? Planning for certain kinds of change is part of the art of software architecture, and UI change is a big one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a great point. Especially if the design demands originality, it&#8217;s good to unfetter one&#8217;s creative thought from thinking about how it&#8217;ll be implemented. It takes self-discipline to do that.  On the other hand, sometimes originality isn&#8217;t as important as getting something designed, built, and out the door with minimal cost. <img src="http://designinginterfaces.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" class="wp-smiley" />  In those cases, sometimes I just work within the known bounds of the system I&#8217;m given (e.g. a WordPress theme), right from the beginning of the design process.</p>
<p>I also agree that architecting large-scale software structures ought to be done with little regard for interface details. At that point, you may not have much of a design anyway &#8212; and even if you do, who knows how much it&#8217;ll change before it&#8217;s finalized, right? Planning for certain kinds of change is part of the art of software architecture, and UI change is a big one.</p>
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